The Problem with Mushroom Tincture Extraction

In my recent article, titled "Medicinal Mushrooms, Raw Powders, and the Extraction Problem" I noted how many mushroom businesses do not properly extract compounds from powders and sell it to customers in the raw from which has minimal medicinal benefits (given that customers do not know how to exact it properly).

I had noted, however, that mushroom tinctures, were the exception and that those who buy mushroom tinctures were likely to be getting reliable and honest produce. It is a testament to how much of a yes-man GPT is that it did not push back against that in anyway. Let's take a look at what it wrote in my previous article:

""" Tinctures deserve special mention because they largely bypass this structural problem. A tincture is, by definition, a liquid extract. Properly made tinctures already contain dissolved active compounds. The consumer is not required to liberate anything through digestion or boiling. The work has already been done. That does not mean all tinctures are strong or well made, but they do not suffer from the same “locked behind chitin” issue as raw powders. This is a major reason traditional systems favored decoctions and tinctures over raw polypore powder for centuries.

"""

I had not done my research and had assumed that companies creating tinctures were honest and properly processed. They mention buzzwords like "whole body extracts", "dual-extracted", and "organic mushrooms" which are good and all but ultimately do not reflect potency of the desirable medicinal compounds in the mushrooms. So yes, while chat GPT correctly notes that this doesn't mean that tinctures are "strong or well made," but I had implied that tinctures were generally immune from being "fake" products, which turned out not to be true.

At the end of the day, I have not seen any company making tinctures disclose the dosage and potency in any meaningful way. First of all, the type of substrate the mushrooms are grown on leads to higher or lower levels of medicinal compounds. For example, mushrooms growing on trees in the wild, on logs, or on mostly hardwood sawdust usually contain higher levels of medicinal compounds than those grown on masters mix (50% soy hull) which optimizes for large mushroom size. It is telling that most companies do not disclose the substrate mixes from which their mushroom tinctures are made.

Second, most companies while mentioning all the aforementioned buzzwords, do not include the ratio of water/mushrooms used and the final reduction volume which goes into the tinctures.

GPT seems to say that it is standard practice to turn 100 grams of dried mushroom into 10 - 20, ~2 oz bottles. This ratio is extremely diluted and is unlikely to have any real medicinal effect on the body. Remember that once the bottles are made, dosage is typically in the ~1 ml. So if one 50 ml bottle contains 50 doses, than you are getting 100 grams divided by 20 bottles divided by 50 servings worth of medicinal compounds. Or 1/1000th of the original grams.

This 1/1000th of medicinal compounds also assumes two things: (1) that there are a normal level of medicinal compounds - mushrooms grown on poor quality substrates such as straw or masters mix will have lower levels and (2) the extraction process is 100% efficient - not in the sense that all beta glucans/desirable compounds are extracted, but rather in the sense most rigorous professional standards are maintained in the extraction process - many small business may have say 50% efficiency. So if efficiency is 50% lower because of poor substrate and 50% lower because of poor extraction methodology, then the final 1 ml droplet contains 1/4000th of the original 100 grams.

So even not going down the route of trying to measure what exactly constitutes a meaningful dose of beta glucans or triterpenes or PSK compounds and how much exactly is necessary to stimulate some sort of immuno-modulating effect or anti-cancer effect, the fact that the effective dose is equivalent 1/1000th to 1/4000th of 100 grams (~1/5 lb) probably means that it is too diluted to have any real effect.

What would this mean if the product were psilocybin instead of medicinal mushrooms?

Let's say you start with 100 grams of psychedelic mushrooms, which is enough for twenty massive doses - five grams being the standard for heroic doses. 1/1000th of 100 grams is 0.1 grams - a tiny microdose. And 1/4000th of 100 grams is 0.025 grams, which really has no detectable effect. Keep in mind that magic mushrooms are known as for being unusually potent and that they are soft mushrooms and water-soluble meaning that it's easier to extract compounds.

Of course, under the scrutiny of a trained biologist and trained chemist, my argument may not hold up. It could be the case that even tiny amounts of reishi compounds or lions mane compounds could have some meaningful effect, but the fact that no tincture producer advertises their potency or dosage speaks for itself.

Again, as mentioned in previous articles, it is not that medicinal mushrooms have no effect. It is true that reishi and lions mane were historically used in traditional chinese medicine - that Chaga was brewed into tea by those in the Russian forest - and that turkey tail mycelium contains levels of "PSK" compounds shown to have some sort of anti-cancer effect.

However, unless the business specifies its production process, I would be hesitant to claim that it has any meaningful medicinal properties.

All of the above being said, if I were to create tinctures to sell, I would want it to be done properly and would take the following steps:

• Step 1: Only grow mushrooms on higher quality 80 - 90% oak substrates

• Step 2: Coarsely grind medicinal mushrooms for maximum extraction. Follow proper industrial procedure to ensure maximum extraction (dual extraction, ensuring enough time for alcohol soak/ water boiling, pressing all liquid out of mushrooms after alcohol soak/water boiling)

• Step 3: Reduce 100 grams worth of mushrooms into about 4 - 5 bottles at most - approximately 100 ml total (In my first attempt to create turkey tail tinctures, I reduced down to 1200 ml), so this would increase potency by a factor of ten

• Step 4: Send in finished product into lab where I can get tests done for active compounds to ensure efficacy of products.
  

If all of these procedures were performed, potency per 1ml serving in a 50 ml bottle, would be equivalent to 100 grams x ( 1 / (5 bottles x 50 m) or 100 grams x 1/250, or .4 grams worth of extractions, whatever that might be.

I don't know if all the numbers and ratios in this thought exercise are correct, but basically, if they're not telling you what the potency is, it's probably not very potent.